“Rush, who saw himself as an innovator like “Steve Jobs or Elon Musk,” the complaint says, once told Pogue, “At some point, safety just is pure waste.” Rush thought he had found a lighter way to build subs.”
This really summarizes the mindset of most second+ generation rich people. Because this guy lived with a lot of inherited money and power all his life, he assumed that everything that comes out of his brain must be the ultimate truth. So much so that without even a single reservation he happily took his son with him to that journey knowing full well that the submarine was probably violating several critical safety requirements that he deemed unnecessary. We are basically being ruled by such people folks.
Super accurate comment.
I’ve worked with plenty poor people who thought the exact same thing.
The only difference is that he actually had the resources to realize his stupid ideas
you should really consider frequency among non billionaires and among second+ generation billionaires. not that I have data on it but I really do think growing up in such an environment does inflate your sense of self idea worth and therefore such a person is more likely to act in this way (but not claiming at all that they are the only ones)
Since the story came out people fixated on “lol he used a shitty gaming controller” but really that is one of the least sketchy design choices in the entire rig. Why reinvent the wheel and make a custom set of controls that are realistically another huge expense and potential failure point, when off the shelf solutions exist for that component?
The corners that were cut are the ones involving the viewport/nose adhesion to the ships frame, and the structural integrity of the carbon fiber hull itself. They had test data suggesting it was a bad idea to engage in repeated dives with their design, and an even worse idea to operate at the depths they chose. They decided to ignore that.
That doesn’t explain why they used the wireless version of that Logitech instead of wired to control the thing they were literally inside.
To be fair, they’re under water and sharks have been known to chew through electrical cables
I suspect the wired cabling would be to control components inside the sub, not outside. And I say that only because it’s unlikely that wireless signals would penetrate the sub walls.
Yes but with this sub the water was on the inside too
Lol
Too dense to pick up on the obvious sarcasm, I see.
i think you’re supposed to say wooosh or something like that
“That doesn’t explain why they used the wireless version of that Logitech instead of wired to control the thing they were literally inside.”
Yes, that sarcasm is profound and deep.
In case my implied message is unclear, go fuck yourself.
Electrical cables inside submarines?
That’s hardcore.
Have you seen pictures of the sub? What makes you think the wiring was all hidden?
It looked worse than cheapest capsule hotel ever built…
I’m mildly claustrophobic and I would have troubles going in that tube even on mainland.
The same reason you use the wireless version of any controller.
If you run into issues you can simply plug in any wireless controller.
Wasnt the carbon fiber body rated for like, 1/3rd the depth that they dove to?
It was very NASA O-Ring vibes. “We did it once, so we can do it every time” at least until they cant anymore, and that cant is usually accompanied by regret and poor innocent people being salsafied.
Carbon fiber wasn’t rated for any depth. It’s shit for compression and you don’t need light materials for a submersible.
No, you’re right… I think it was the winshield bubble that was rated for 1/3rd the depth? I know something was rated for a far shallower depth than what the dumbass CEO made the sub repeatedly go to.
Also, these materials compress at different rates.
An off the shelf controller wasn’t a terrible idea, but of course it was blue tooth and had pairing issues on previous trips
F710 does not support bluetooth
No, but it supports wireless using 2.4ghz with an usb receiver. it does not support a wired connection at all.
https://www.logitechg.com/en-eu/products/gamepads/f710-wireless-gamepad.940-000145.html
It may be 2.4ghz but it isn’t compatible with anything else anywhere and the range is terrible. Like as in if you are more than 2 feet from the receiver it will random spaz.
using a wireless controller to manage life critical functions is the acme of stupidity.
The game controller is not managing life critical functions, that’s called a computer. The game controller plugs into the computer. The great thing about that is that you can bring a second (or even a third) game controller for redundancy.
It’s just that the engineering choices that caused the failure are difficult to understand or communicate in sentence so the game controller is something any idiot can harp on about and sound smart.
From what I can tell the lawsuit (which is against Ocean Gate, not Logitech) is really just calling out the controller as another example of willfully negligent behaviour.
You’re certainly correct that the actual cause of the failure was the carbon fibre hull. Just a terrible idea on so many levels. Carbon fibre, by its nature, is good under tension, not compression. It was never going to function well as a pressure vessel underwater.
There were a litany of terrible decisions made by Ocean Gate, such as not tethering the sub, because it was cheaper to launch it from a towed raft, but none of those bad decisions ultimately mattered once that pressure vessel failed. Those people were dead so fast that, to quote Scott Manley, “You go from being biology to being physics.”
You can always bring a second controller for redundancy. I would bet money the game controller had zero impact on the failure and I hate all the shade being thrown on this innocent controller.
That game controller has terrible range, zero compatibility with any other device, and randomly adds inputs when the controller is more than 2 feet away from the receiver. It is reasonable to consider if uncontrolled movement contributed to the implosion, or a loss of control at a critical moment preventing return to the surface.
I think Logitech should take responsibility and give them a $30 voucher
“best we can offer is a replacement. but you will need to return the original”
Maybe a $10 Uber Eats gift card?
Expires on August 1st, 2024
Question. Who are they actually suing? Didn’t the bozo die along with everyone else? So who would hold responsibility?
It appears they are suing OceanGate, the company that made the submarine. The use of cheap, consumer grade hardware for critical functions (literally controlling the sub) is one of their criticisms.
I don’t see why the controller is a problem.
If you go out and custom-make a controller, it’s not likely going to be more reliable than anything that Logitech makes.
Logitech… the company whose 150 dollar mouse have double click issues months into the purchase?
https://www.theverge.com/2017/9/19/16333376/us-navy-military-xbox-360-controller
US Army used to spend $38,000 per controller until they found out Xbox controllers were better
Now if the controls break, “I can go to any video game store and procure an Xbox controller anywhere in the world, so it makes a very easy replacement,” Senior Chief Mark Eichenlaub told The Virginian-Pilot
That sounds like a great way to get malware!
Do you regularly get malware from xbox controllers?
Bad USB is ABSOLUTELY a vector for state sponsored hacking. As has USB sticks (or devices) sold in sketchy shops.
https://smartermsp.com/tech-time-warp-the-usb-drive-that-changed-military-cybersecurity/
The virus in question was agent.btz, a piece of “autorun” malware. In 2008, agent.btz infected U.S. Central Command, which was running the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.
See also
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BadUSB
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stuxnet
Pretty nuts to see I got downvoted for this. This is cybersecurity 101 shit. Don’t plug untrusted USB devices into sensitive infrastructure. I’m not saying using an Xbox controller is a bad idea. I’m saying plugging an Xbox controller bought in a port side sketchy electronics shop into a freaking nuclear sub is. If they are sourcing it from Microsoft I am have no issues with it.
Yeah, but if you’re going to use a wireless controller, don’t fucking skimp and get some cheapo device, at least buy a goddamned 1st party controller. Not that MS/Sony don’t have lemons too, but Logitech controllers are like a half step from the crappy MadKatz controllers from my childhood.
This had to be a project costing somewhere in the hundreds of thousands to millions of dollars, and they’re trying to save $30 on an aftermarket controller?!? That’s the literal embodiment of Penny Wise, pound foolish.
That’s only assuming the sub was running windows, where Xbox controllers work out of the box. On Linux there are no first party drivers, and Bluetooth support on the 1/S controllers simply didn’t exist at the time this happened. If it was an embedded system there would be no support whatsoever.
The company itself (oceangate) still exists. The estate of Stockton Rush is also named in the suit.
🤦♂️
If anything that controller was the most solidly built thing on that entire sub.
This controller kept me in rocket league gold for months. I put it on eBay and some shmuck said they need it in a submarine but are on a budget so max can do is three fiddy. I just wanted to get rid of the thing
Behind the Bastards did a pretty great two-parter on Stockton Rush, and how a) he completely shit the bed while ignoring all the super-deep-exploration experts, and b) how nature was totally telegraphing to Rush and OceanGate that this submersible is totally not doing it and will end in a spectacular tragedy, only no one else will be down there to watch but the fishes.
The controller wasn’t a particularly weak link, though for safety’s sake I’d want there to be a redundant spare, and it set up for plug and play. But higher on my priority list would be things like integrity monitors and an emergency way to open the sub from the inside (the hatch was bolted from the outside, and there were no emergency exit measures.
… How do you propose to emergency exit that sub at 1000 meters depth?
I’d say the bigger issue is that he used a carbon fibre body, a material which has great tensile Strength but sucks for this.
They way bigger issue than that is that he glued the metal rear section to the carbon fiber body. Both materials expand and contract differently under pressure, which is not what you want at 3 kilometer deep pressures, especially with multiple descends and ascends. That glue could never keep those materials together, that alone was a disaster waiting to happen
The problem was that if they surfaced away from the support vessel, there was no way to open it to get fresh air. So you could still run out of oxygen and die while floating around on the surface waiting to be found.
Yeah that sounds like less of an issue to me, honestly. That support vessel van be there quick enough, send in airplanes, whatever. You can make a more intricate inside and outside locking mechanism but that’ll make your entire submarine a whole lot more expensive
To be fair, they all exited the vehicle pretty quickly at the time without it needing to be unbolted from the outside. Experts… pfft.
Such bad taste, sir. Have a reluctant upvote for that absolutely crushing wit.
Oh yeah, the controller is clearly the one a fault here…
I mean, they clearly made this for an submersible, one made of carbon fibre specifically.
Just taking a guess here but the controller was probably brought up as evidence for how much they were cutting corners and disregarding safety and good sense, not as the cause of the failure
What a stupid waste of time and resources.
