The “platform economy” is just another term for digital landlords.
Fuck 'em.
Techno feudalism is the term, look it up
lol, the irony is patreon is also a platform. Its platforms all the way down. They take 12%. If Apple wanted to be the good guy, they’d take 30% of patreon’s 12%.
Middle man skimming off the top.
If digital platforms didn’t add any value, every android app would just be available for sideloading on the dev’s website. Not that I agree with Apple’s pricing tactics, but running and moderating a marketplace isn’t free
Landlords don’t create the value themselves, they are an intermediary for value.
Platforms don’t create the value themselves, they are also an intermediary for value.
The value app stores provide is reach, but they don’t get that value without the developer’s effort. The only thing they provide is the network effect, which is nothing more than a consequence of making themselves the default option for users of these phones.
For the same reason that landlords don’t provide inherent value, but still capture so much of the housing market, platforms don’t provide inherent value, but still capture so much of the app market.
They push out competition. If a landlord buys a house, there’s one less house for someone to buy. If an app store brings in another user, there’s one less user that will use other means to acquire an app.
I myself primarily use alternative means of installing apps. Direct APK downloads, or F-Droid. The only reason these exist is because the apps I use are specifically targeting a privacy-conscious user base that is likely to be using alternative means to acquire apps in the first place.
Because these platforms immediately monopolize user acquisition by bundling themselves with the OS, they directly fight any pressure to use alternative means, which makes most app developer efforts to create alternative means not worth the time.
App stores can and should be free. Without an app store, Apple and Google would have barely any market for their phones.
These platforms exist to give the hardware & OS itself value. The only reason these fees exist is because they are monopolies.
i’m so glad i’m on android
Glad to use another prisonware?
I’m curious what this means. Personally I don’t give a damn who uses what do what’s good for you, but android is heavily customizable with different operating systems and apps for more minor tweaks. On top of all that switching from android to iPhone is IMMENSELY easier than iPhone to android.
If you’re referencing the Google apps that people get to involved with there’s many options to get away from them nowadays. There’s whole communities here on lemmy assisting with that for those in to deep or even those just joining the android community so they don’t get pulled in.
I use android not because it’s good but because I can get unlocked bootloader and that hack where you can spoof app permissions to provide them with fake data instead of using Google’s fake ass permissions system. I doubt this gives me 100% bulletproof privacy but not being able to harvest my data as reliably costs Google and the other big corporations money which is all I care about.
As opposed to just using a flip phone? I’d happily use a FOSS based Linux phone if it were well developed and readily available.
They are developed, lol, what do you mean
Until you can use things like banking apps on them they will never be mainstream sadly.
Two months ago I had to buy a new phone because my new bank’s app refused to install on the android version of my previous (perfectly working) android phone that I had had for 6 years. The phone brand was not providing android updates for it.
And I was required to install the app because the website of the bank needed a code that only the app could provide in order to access my account.
And the app itself required a code that I could only get by SMS.
In normal situation I would have gone to a different bank but this time I can’t because I signed my mortgage with this bank…
And everything is a slog with them, I hate this bank. And I will be stuck with them for decades.
It should be illegal for bank to refuse access if don’t have the ‘correct’ phone OS
(perfectly working) android phone that I had had for 6 years. The phone brand was not providing android updates for it.
I get it through from the banks perspective. The OS is no longer getting security updates, so this is a fault of the phone manufacter for not having a long term commitment to security and OS updates.
And the app itself required a code that I could only get by SMS.
Yeah this is pretty bad.
And I will be stuck with them for decades.
Why’s that? I have my mortage through one bank but literally never use the actual services of the bank, I’ve never called them or used their app or logged into the site. My current account and savings accounts are with another bank separate to my mortage provider.
Also, won’t you be able to change when you come to re-mortgage if another bank offers a better deal?
You absolutely don’t have to stay at the bank you have a mortgage through. My checking/savings, auto loan and mortgage are all at different banks.
I’m on Graphene OS and I use six different banking apps with no problem.
If your bank forces you to use a banking app, you should stop using that bank. Or stop using banks overall. That’s a bank problem, not a Linux problem. Obvious
Feels good to be on graphene (and Debian)
The fee will only apply to memberships purchased on Patreon’s iOS app starting November 4th, 2024.
Good, I hope they shed light on Apple’s shitfuckery.
Yeah, I actually think this policy is 100% correct and, if more services did this instead of eating the costs, we could have a real discussion about the harm caused by arbitrary fees.
It will likely result in Apple seeking a special deal with Patreon to avoid this mess though. It’s really not a good look for Apple especially as they cater themselves to the creatives market.
Being as this is very similar to the apple epic legal fight that epic lost earlier this year, I doubt apple will make a deal. My understanding is that patreon can cave, choose to pay 27% commission, or make their own store.
Though skimming the news around epic’s attempts to make a store, you “can” make a store in compliance with EU and UK laws, but apple made it kinda impossible to actually do and epic is fighting it in court again?
So patreon seems to have read the lay of things and said I guess we just have to make the best of a shitty situation and communicate everything to try to limit the pain.
It’s almost like apple feels like they have the power to do whatever they want because they’ve created a market where they don’t have competition…
Until recently, apps were not even allowed to charge less outside their apps than on the app store or to link to outside stores.
We should thank the European Union for that.
Thanks European Union
Merci, union européenne
Hey, let’s do it in all official languages of the EU. So far we’ve had English and French.
The EU (where I live) is a bureaucracy nightmare sometimes, and is often far too removed from citizens. It has a gazillion problems, but as far as data protections and customer rights it does some things half right.
I live in the EU and I’m happy we have it, because otherwise we wouldn’t have many consumer protection laws (either because my government is stupid or because we wouldn’t have enough leverage as a single country).
Many things we now take for granted are only possible thanks to the EU, like the 2-years warranty on electronic/household products.
They were allowed to charge less, just not mention or link to it in any way. Proton has been doing it for a while that the Apple in-app purchases are roughly 30% higher.
they cater themselves to the creatives market
LOL only in advertising.
This is a given for many kinds of services. Always purchase subscriptions on another device or direct through their website - never use your Apple devices’ app store.
I’m just worried for the content creators on patreon. Their choices are a significant reduction in income, jacking up prices and pricing out some of their patrons (thus reducing their income), or if patreon pulls from apple there’s a significant reduction in visibility and additional hurdles (thus reducing income).
So it seems that no matter the outcome, creators suffer the consequences of the Apple tax.
Fuck apple. Rotten to the core. Class action lawsuit in the very least.
Vote. We need House, Senate, and President to not be corporate fascists so that we can impeach at least 2 or 3 supreme court judges, replace them with rational human beings, reverse the overturning of Chevron Deference, and then let a stronger FTC gut these fucking companies.
Self dealing, competition buying, corporate fascists. The lot of them.
What we can work on is awareness. If iOS users are aware, they can choose to simply go to the website directly and make the purchase, instead of using the app. They can still use the app for consumption.
Yep, that’s what everyone I know with Apple devices have always done. I used to have a Nexus 7 (rip) and an iPhone, and the prices on the App store were always higher than the prices on Android Market (rip).
I’m wondering why it’s being pointed out now by everyone, but I’m not gonna complain if it leads to some sort of price parity regulation across platforms.
Fuck apple. Rotten to the core. Class action lawsuit in the very least.
We’re well past class action territory. They’ve already been required to allow third-party app stores by the EU. They’re simply not complying and no one is doing shit about it.
It’s all about trust. The problem is that people trust Apple not to steal your credit card information and to honor subscription rules etc. You probably trust the independent platform a bit less, such as many of those scammer platforms who might even charge people more than they should by “mistake”, then have an awful process to get reimbursed etc.
In that sense, most people will always prefer Apple to manage these things. Everything’s then in one place, and you trust that once you cancel it you won’t be charged again.
As an example, I had a Netflix subscription and after I cancelled it, I’ve got 2 or three emails saying “Thank you for reactivating your subscription” which I didn’t do. I suspect they make some pop up that my mom tapped without noticing, but that definitely shouldn’t happen without my password. I could only solve the problem by adding a second payment method (which doesn’t work) and only then it allowed me to delete my previous credit card data.
Is apple still blocking apps from telling users they can subscribe outside of the app store?
I.e A message on check out that says “You can save 30% if you subscribe directly the website. Apple charges a 30% processing fee for using Apple subscriptions, please just subscribe on the website.”
This couldn’t have come at a worse time, given their DOJ suit.
Someone’s looking to get in on some anti-trust action.
I thought Apple’s app store practices were found to be legal in the Epic Games trial? (unlike Google’s)
Which is kinda ridiculous since Apple’s practices are what Google does but worse.
To paraphrase an analysis that I read awhile ago, Apple’s practices were found to be legal because Apple applied the rules unilaterally whereas Google would make backroom deals to alter the rules on an app-by-app basis.
Please take this with a grain of salt because 1) IANAL and 2) it is the middle of a workday break and I didn’t take the time to search for a source, just basing this off of memory.
If you want I can research this after work to provide sources and update my comment.
I’m okay with paying 30% where the return on investment is worth it. Both the Appstore and Google Play do literally nothing for you, except distribution, and payment processing. These really don’t deserve to take such a big cut, and I don’t really want to hear any more excuses in their favor
This is not about the App Store service’s quality, this is about option. They could charge 50% for all I care, if we had the option to buy iOS apps from another store other than Apple’s.
Both the Appstore and Google Play do literally nothing for you, except distribution.
I mean distribution is not “nothing”. They have to maintain the app store, and process payments, and filter (most) malicious software.
It’s just not worth anywhere near 30%, not to mention the flurry of ads all over the place.
At least with Android it’s completely possible to have a third-party app or app store and charge using their own payment processes without ever touching the Google Play store.
Apple is a whole other level of control and anti-competitiveness, and they’ve been profiting off of it for decades with no intervention in sight.
Dunno about Apple but Google does a very bad job of monitoring the Play Store. Outright malicious apps are one thing and deceiving apps are other. Latter is a very big problem. Low quality apps minced with in app purchases/subscriptions that are carbon copies of each other.
Google arguably does a worse job of curating the Play Store (sponsored results) and has a non existent support.
I’ll still say that when it comes to developers, Apple is a much better experience than Google.
On the App Store you can appeal if your app is rejected and you have an actual human on the other side to explain you what are the issues.
On the Google Play, anything goes usually, but later if your account gets flagged by their automated system, you might 1) get a generic email with no explanation and a threat that you should fix it or the app will be taken down and your account get 1 out of 3 warnings; 2) get your account simply banned without explanation, losing all your services associated with Google forever with no appeal or anything you can do; 3) have your Google account simply disabled for supposedly being “associated” with some other account that was banned.
Many of these horror stories can be found on the Android development subreddits and I suspect this is the result of the Play Store being a big target of malicious or scam apps constantly.
Well, on Google you have the choice to forego the app store altogether and distribute however you choose.
30% is more or less the industry standard. Whether it’s a physical store or an online store. They almost all take a 30% cut.
So if I read that correctly, Apple wants a cut from Patreon’s iOS app, not all Patreon creetors that have iOS apps. People still have the option of contributing to Patreon directly via their website, or even their mobile website.
Apple takes a 30% cut from almost all transactions made within all apps installed from the App Store (which is literally all of them) and you’re not allowed to advertise e.g. a website to avoid the tax. Patreon rightly passes the 30% onto consumers, as should all apps. Regardless of their own bad practices, Apple needs to be held accountable.
Unless you’re selling physical goods (e.g. Amazon or eBay)
Thank you for the clarification, as I said, there are exceptions which are few and far between for the rule, with this being a huge carveout I missed - selling physical goods is exempt.
But if you want to pay for in-game goods (subscriptions, gems, skins, whatever) or an app outright Apple takes 30%. I know they charge Netflix the 30% for their subscriptions, but wonder about e.g. tickets/passes for transit.
No, tickets and passes for transit or events are exempt (I know it because I work in the industry). Unless they’re tickets for digital events (such as remote workshops), in that case you should pay the 30% fee.
Gee, thanks!
